Episode 10 | Luke Jolly with HLE
00:00:05 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Welcome to Vision Driven with Resin Architecture, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of
architecture, development, and construction.
00:00:12 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
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00:00:19 Micki Schwartz with Rudd & Co
When you talk about real estate, I would always recommend that you go into it with the exit in mind.
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Advice I'd give somebody that's presenting their case, or pitching their loan to a bank, is just to be really well prepared.
00:00:32 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
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00:00:51 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Our guest today is Luke Jolley. Luke is with Harper Levitt Engineering. You’re a civil engineer, and your experiences includes transportation, geotechnical, public wells, public water systems, sanitary sewer systems, storm systems, land development, site design and roadway design, and working with the client on public bidding, awarding and contract and construction oversight while coordinating with clients and contractors.
00:01:20 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
So pretty much everything that has to do with dirt, anything that's in the ground and dealing with water that's landing on that ground, that's kind of the civil engineer's role. Luke, can you give us both a brief history of you and then maybe a little bit about your company as well?
00:01:39 Luke Jolley with HLE
So I started working for Harper Levitt, which we kind of go by HLE now, just because there's no Harpers or Levitts left in the company. But I started working there at 16. My dad was one of the previous owners and so it's kind of been ever since I've been able to work - besides moving pipe or something - I've worked for HLE.
00:02:02 Luke Jolley with HLE
Started out on the survey side of things. Survey crew, construction, staking, etcetera. Then I got home off a mission and after that I decided I didn't want to do surveying because I hated blue topping out in the heat of the summer. So, I decided to go into civil engineering since it was what I knew, and I like math. I started out at Utah State and then finished at ISU (Idaho State University) after I got married.
00:02:34 Luke Jolley with HLE
And then just been at HLE ever since. We've been around since Jack Harper was the original owner from 1969, so we celebrated our 50 year four years ago or so. We've been in this valley a long time. Started in Blackfoot. Then we opened an office in Idaho Falls. We were the first to have a materials testing lab in the Snake River Plain.
00:03:04 Luke Jolley with HLE
We're an all-in-one encompassing company where we do land surveying, all aspects of civil. You mentioned a lot, transportation, geotechnical, structural, water, sewer, and we do some environmental. So essentially everything and then we have our materials lab on top of that. So yeah, there's not much in the civil aspect that we don't do. We don't do a lot on the structural side of things with buildings. We do some if we need to, but most of it's in the bridges and things like that.
00:03:48 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
And not to age you or anything, but how long have you been at HLE then?
00:03:55 Luke Jolley with HLE
What is that 27 years?
00:03:57 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
OK.
00:03:59 Luke Jolley with HLE
So yeah, more of my life than not sadly, I guess.
00:04:07 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
You've explained to us why you ended up as a civil engineer instead of any other discipline of engineering. So tell us what aspects of civil engineering are more along the lines of something you enjoy versus some that you just tolerate
00:04:26 Luke Jolley with HLE
That's a good question. I like, I would say the design aspect of things more where now I'm in a more a manager role per se as the president of the company. So dealing a lot more with employees and problems that are associated with things. But I like just to get down on a project and just start designing, seeing a vision of a finished product on a blanket piece of ground or whatever. I feel that that's something I'm successful at of envisioning what it needs to look like at the end to make that a successful project. Roads, parking lots, that kind of stuff, I would say I enjoy more than the other aspects.
00:05:28 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
I feel like, at least in our industry, people don't really know what we do and I'm assuming it's very similar in civil engineering. What are some of the common misconceptions that people have for what you do or don't do?
00:05:44 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say one of the biggest ones is probably when they hear the word civil, they don't realize that civil encompasses all of those aspects that we've talked about, not just, oh, doing a parking lot design or a road design. But you know the storm system design, the water infrastructure, the sewer infrastructure, the geotechnical design, all in the structure of the building, all of that is an aspect of civil. Essentially anything that goes on on most projects development projects have some sort of aspect of civil to it.
00:06:24 Luke Jolley with HLE
So yeah, that's what I would say is probably one of the [misconceptions.] They're like, oh, you do that, and that and that and that.
00:06:30 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Right. It keeps growing.
00:06:34 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
When does a civil engineer become part of the design process?
00:06:40 Luke Jolley with HLE
Sometimes at the very beginning, prior to anyone else getting involved, a lot of times, since we're also a land surveying company, if they're doing platting or something like that then we get involved relatively early, but then sometimes we're on the back end after they've hired, say, an architect or the rest of the team and then they bring us on as a sub to that. So yeah, we're sometimes the prime and sometimes the sub-consultant on that aspect.
00:07:13 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
From our perspective, we almost always do some concept work and then it's like hey, now we need to pull in a civil engineer because we don't know the extent of the site or we're using Google Earth, which s kind of accurate. But you start getting to where it's like, hey, we're kind of tight here. We really need to pull on a civil engineer and a lot of times there's complications as well that we're not aware of even in Google Earth if we haven't made it out to the site yet and seeing the topography or recognizing the site’s flat but two feet under this is rock. Getting that geotech report can change whether they have a basement or not. It can change some other things where it's like, oh, now let's bring up the site a little bit because we don't want to deal with that. And you know there can be a lot of ramifications there that people don't recognize.
00:08:18 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
What would you tell somebody if it was like, hey, this is your first time developing a project and what would you tell them in terms of... and let's just say we have this hypothetical client, they're working with an architecture team already, but they've hired you directly. What kind of advice would you be giving them?
00:08:38 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would tell them to try and figure out as much as possible at the beginning of the project so that we don't get halfway down the road and have to make major changes. One, it's a nightmare scenario for us, but it also costs the client so much more money if they don't understand their vision of what they're wanting out of this.
00:09:03 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Do you have some examples of something that they've changed that has...
00:09:10 Luke Jolley with HLE
I mean, even as simple as - so we do quite a few hotels and every single time that they say, oh, we just need to make this 5 foot tweak. We need to add more space onto the conference room. But yet we've already started our site design. And now we have to readjust parking. We have to readjust storm. We have to readjust elevations and so just every little tweak. Oh it's just you know one little thing. But for us it has ramifications across the entire site a lot of times.
00:09:40 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Because now you're looking at, hey, we had just enough landscape coverage and we just lost a parking stall. How are you going to get that back?
00:09:48 Luke Jolley with HLE
How do I make it up? It seems like the other thing is - which they're trying to make the most bang for their buck of course, right? So they're trying to put as much as they can into this little site. Where instead if we just had a little bit more that said, OK, I really only need to use this, then it gives us a lot more freedom. That's not how it happens usually.
00:10:11 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Yeah, it's hard to make things pencil out when you can't sell parking stalls. It's not a parking garage. You guys do parking garages?
00:10:22 Luke Jolley with HLE
We've done one, yeah.
00:10:23 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
OK. I guess we didn't bring that one up, but.
00:10:28 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
I'm going to back up just a little bit. Part of our intent in building this podcast is to educate first time developers who are new to the process and may be unfamiliar with some of the terms. So will you just go over some of the deliverables, like geotechnical reports? Explain that in simple terms. Maybe a survey - the difference between an ALTA survey and a topo survey or those kinds of things?
00:10:54 Luke Jolley with HLE
Let's just start with the survey. And since that usually happens first, so a topo survey is when we send the guys with GPS out and get the topography of the land, anything that's there whether it's bare ground, whether there's existing utilities, whether there's creeks or sidewalk or storm or sewer. We get all the existing features so that we can start a design based on real world information. An ALTA survey goes more in depth where there's certain things like we need to have building corners and eaves and everything within a certain dimension tolerance. That has to be so accurate. Everything needs to be shown: [parking lot] striping.
00:11:42 Luke Jolley with HLE
A lot of times it's even size of trees and things like that have to be shown on that and those are mainly for if someone's buying a property that is either vacant or not vacant and they're needing to see or the lender wants to see that information.
00:12:02 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
Before you move past the survey, the ALTA survey, does it supersede or take the place to the topo, or do you do both sometimes? Is there any need [to do both]?
00:12:10 Luke Jolley with HLE
Usually an ALTA doesn't worry as much about the contour stuff, so that aspect maybe isn't quite as accurate. So a lot of times there is some supplemental form of a topo from an ATLA that needs to be done on the topo.
00:12:28 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
OK, sorry. Go ahead. Keep talking about your deliverables.
00:12:33 Luke Jolley with HLE
So I guess for moving on from that, then there's the platting process. There's usually a preliminary plat and a final plat. And usually for the preliminary plat you have to go to planning & zoning first, that's to make sure that it's zoned correctly, the property is zoned correctly. If it's not, then you have to go through a rezone. Maybe it's not even in the city. You have to go through annexation process.
00:13:00 Luke Jolley with HLE
That's kind of the first steps and then if after the annexation & rezone are good, then you go after the preliminary plat aspect through planning and zoning, which then if it's in the city, it'll go to City Council after that. And if it's in the county, it'll go to the county commissioners after that for preliminary approval.
00:13:19 Luke Jolley with HLE
And then after that then you just have to go to final back to City Council or final back to Commissioners
for that final plat of the subdivision or whatever it is.
00:13:32 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
And for Idaho Falls, I think I recently heard that that's something like a 60-day process. Is that about right for planning?
00:13:40 Luke Jolley with HLE
That would be really fast, I would say.
00:13:42 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
OK, what's typical?
00:13:44 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
That's probably their ideal.
00:13:47 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say you're probably by the time you go through the full plating process, I would guess you're
more 6 to 9 months.
00:13:55 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
OK. So we need to plan for that.
00:13:58 Luke Jolley with HLE
You gotta plan ahead. Yes. Can't start in the middle of the summer and expect to be, you know, breaking ground in the fall. It's not going to probably happen. Starting now in the fall time and then hoping to start in the spring with breaking ground on stuff would be more realistic.
00:14:17 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Are you having that same length of time in other jurisdictions?
00:14:21 Luke Jolley with HLE
Yeah, pretty much everywhere. That's pretty standard yeah, because you have to be usually 30 days prior to getting on planning and zoning or whatever on their agenda. And then you go to that one, then you have to wait till the next deadline which is usually a month later. So before you get to City Council, you're usually 60 to 90 days before from the time you first submit for planning & zoning until you get to
City Council for that first step.
00:14:51 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
Any other deliverables you want to go over?
00:14:55 Luke Jolley with HLE
The geotechnical so that's a report based on essentially what the subsurface [is] (stuff we can't see). So you either go and do excavation with a backhoe or an excavator or you can use a drill rig to see depending on the depth that you're worried about or what depth the foundation you think is going to have a presence on will determine whether you feel that you need to use a drill rig or not. But the nice thing about the Snake River Plain is we are in the riverbed and so most the areas are river rock so it's that GP soil, which is great for building. I mean we have some of the best material to build on in this valley.
00:15:43 Luke Jolley with HLE
I mean, yeah, there's some clay spots or some sandy spots or whatnot. But for the most part, you dig down two-three feet in that Snake River Plain, then you're going to hit that gravel, which is pretty nice. Up here in Idaho Falls, you'll run into the basalt layer, especially close to the river. But other than that, you still should be getting that [river rock]. That's why there's gravel pits everywhere around here.
00:16:10 Luke Jolley with HLE
Because we have that good source of material for our roads, but also for our buildings. But yeah, that geotechnical report tells us what kind of soils are beneath the earth and at what layers they are and then gives you the bearing capacities of each of those soils and also what the depth of water is, what the seismic risks are which there is seismic activity from Yellowstone and things near here. So there's that's always something to consider too.
00:16:40 Luke Jolley with HLE
But yeah, that's one of the first items usually done prior to a project is getting that geotechnical done so that you can get that information to the structural engineer. So they know what to start designing based on.
00:16:58 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
How do you feel like civil engineering has changed during the course of your career?
00:17:05 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say the biggest thing is just continued [development] of technology. The main program that we use is AutoCAD. AutoCAD back in the 2000s or whatever, even 98, it is kind of like just the LT so it's kind of more 2D. And now, since about 2000 - I can’t remember - 7 or 9 when the civil 3D came out, so you're able to build actual 3D surfaces or 3D models or 3D pipe networks or things like that where you're getting into more real-world design and making it look more real world.
00:17:52 Luke Jolley with HLE
I mean, you can design a road corridor and then you can click a button, then it'll drive you down that road so you can see if there's issues or whatnot. So I would say the biggest thing is technology that it's advancing. It's only going to increase as these other things [develop]. I mean the AI stuff. Who knows where that's gonna go?
00:18:21 Luke Jolley with HLE
I had a meeting with ACEC [American Council of Engineering Companies] in Denver this last May and that was one of the things that they talked to about is the AI stuff and how many jobs that will actually probably be lost from the AI type aspect where everything's getting automated. I mean it's up to 30 to 40% of workforce will have to find other work somewhere else because you don't need [their jobs] as much. So there times are changing for sure. Some good and some bad I guess.
00:18:59 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
Resin uses 3D modeling too of course. I'm sure you're aware of that, and we often tout the values, but tell us the values from a civil side. Is it driving down the road? I mean, are we just talking smoke and mirrors or what's the actual value that we get out of using a 3D AutoCAD instead of paper and pencil.
00:19:22 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say for surfaces especially you can see. You can flip it up and you can see OK wow. I didn't see that this slope was running right the wrong direction or waist deep or whatnot, or in your pipes you can do pipe checks where you have pipes crossing. You can make sure that [there are no conflicts.] Where in 2D, you're just OK if I calculate from X to Z. This is the distance and then this is my slope. And I OK, this is roughly the elevation this pipe. Where now it'll check my pipes when you design them in 3D and [reveal] OK. No, there's no interferences or whatever. So there it definitely, I think simplifies things. But I think it also makes us more accurate, I mean. The next step is instead of back in [19]96 when I was... So GPS was just starting about that time and it was more of a... I remember you had to see your base station. So if there was a rolling hill, you had to go set it up on top and then you could still only see line of sight essentially.
00:20:35 Luke Jolley with HLE
And now it's off of satellite networks and other networks that you don't even have to have bases set up. But in in doing that technology, now it's the contractors that have a lot of that information. So we're taking those 3D surfaces that we talked about and they're importing that into their Cat or their excavator even. And we have a lot of contractors. That's how [they] dig their pipes.
00:21:04 Luke Jolley with HLE
They tell it to dig to the bottom of this model and that's the bottom of the trench. Builds in the slope, builds everything, so takes a lot of the guesswork and problems - causes some problems, but takes some problems away and that's all in that 3D aspect of things. So it's transferring. We're not just using it, but the contractors, I think, use it even more than we do.
00:21:31 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
That's what we've noticed. That the 3D modeling that makes our job simpler, such as laser scanning an existing building for a remodel that gives us accurate data points and it takes a lot less time. There's a lot more accuracy than going out with the tape measure trying to get dimensions. But it's also been useful for our clients, excellent for consultants too. There's value for the whole team.
00:21:55 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
I don't think, at least on the building side, I don't feel like it's as far as what you're describing because we're not necessarily giving it to our contractor and saying, hey, put this into whatever machine and have at it, which you know, at some point there are technologies out there: concrete formed buildings, 3D printed buildings. Right now, those are interesting to see, but it's not widespread and it will be, I guess, even more interesting to see, you know how things evolve over the next 10 years even in that in that realm of technology and in construction, because I feel like it's a field that doesn't really get touched with that much technology. It's definitely coming, but we still swing hammers.
00:22:48 Luke Jolley with HLE
Right. Still have to have that manual labor to get a lot of that stuff done.
00:22:55 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Civil engineers can contract directly with the owner or with an architect. What are the advantages and disadvantages of either situation from your perspective?
00:23:09 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say if the main focus of the project is the building and then everything else flows from that. I would say they're better off hiring the architect and having the civil underneath the architect, but if there's more dealing with the civil or the site aspect than the buildings, etcetera. Then I would say they're better off probably directly contracting with the civil engineer. Just mainly because that way we have one point of contact instead of having to have the client go through the architect to give us the civil information. Not saying that we can't go that route once we're hired under an architect - have direct communication with the owner or whatever
00:24:01 Luke Jolley with HLE
But usually that's where we fall into those two realms of which way we go, whether we're directly enter an architecture. Then sometimes it's just the owner who flat out wants only one point of contact. And so then we've done it both ways too. Whether we're the prime or the sub.
00:24:23 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Yeah, I know that you guys have been the prime and we've been your sub and vice versa mostly vice versa. But it does make sense on occasion where it's like, yeah, this is mostly a little bit of architecture. You know, maybe there's a little elevation upgrade or something and then there's quite a bit of site rework that's happening so.
00:24:50 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
How do you balance the client’s desires with the engineering requirements?
00:24:56 Luke Jolley with HLE
Our take is - and it's not just in engineering - it's in the surveying side too, is that as long as it's meeting a rule or a code, we're going to fight for our client to get what they want as long as it meets the requirements. We work for the client. We have relationships with the cities or the other entities, but still we're hired by that client to get them the product that they want as long as it falls within those codes.
00:25:32 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Is there anything that you've ever had to do that's like, yeah, I'm staying within these bounds from, like, either city requirements code requirements, but I'm doing something very different to meet the client's needs still within my...
00:25:45 Luke Jolley with HLE
I can't think of one per se right off the top of my head. I just can think of examples where clients have said, well, are you working for us or are you working for the city. We have to one maintain that relationship with the city or else our project’s not going to get through. Because they could make it a living hell for us to try to get a project through if they wanted to. So we got to go about it tactfully saying, well, you know this this meets your criteria. So you know, it might not be the way that you want to do it, but still it meets everything. So this is what our client wants. And so we really push for that to be achieved.
00:26:31 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Do you feel like that? Adds additional reviews sometimes.
00:26:35 Luke Jolley with HLE
Yeah, I would say so.
00:26:36 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
I guess particularly there's a project that I worked with Gilmore with HLE on and you know, we were very close to the city or in terms of the city has this kind of flex space where they're like, hey, we can give you 0 set back or we can give you 7 feet. Or anything up anywhere in between that. And this was, you know, kind of a downtown sort of feel that we were going for. We wanted it as close to the street as we could get it and I feel like there's additional review rounds. However, on the same note, we were able to add [and] this kind of comes back to we're trying to get as much square footage of building leaseable space as we can and also create a certain atmosphere. And so it's like, well, you take 7 feet times, you know, even 100. It's like that 700 square feet projected up three stories in this case. That adds a lot of leasable space, and that's what makes the project work. And without that, you know, the project doesn't really work.
00:27:43 Luke Jolley with HLE
Yeah. And I guess that's from the private side of things I think that's one of the frustrations that I think we have working on this side is working with the cities. They look at it from their perspective and not from the other perspective of OK, is this project feasible? And most of the time the cities they don't care. Well, this is what it's going to be.
00:28:14 Luke Jolley with HLE
So it's hard or frustrating to say, OK, well, you would you rather have this project go or is it do you would you rather have nothing coming and now there's no tax base? There's no... And so that gets frustrating sometimes dealing with different municipalities.
00:28:29 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Especially when that flexibility does exist where the city has already built in oh we can do zero to seven, but it's...
00:28:36 Luke Jolley with HLE
My opinion today.
00:28:36 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
With a little asterisk of, but we want it however we want it, and we're going to ask for certain things to let you have it.
00:28:44 Luke Jolley with HLE
Yeah, and it might depend on the day which answer we're going to give you.
00:28:47 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:50 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
Our last question that we always ask each of our guests is if you had just one piece of advice to give to someone who's building a space for their business, their first experience into this realm, what advice would you give them?
00:29:07 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say do your research as much as you can prior to engaging with either an architect or a civil engineer or a survey or whatever. Do as much research as you have can on your own and then bring that information to us and then come with your thoughts or ideas of what you want or envision this master plan to be. Whether it's a 1-lot subdivision or site plan, or if it's a 3,000-lot subdivision. I mean, we had a client the other day which I would have never thought that they wanted a subdivision in the county.
00:29:55 Luke Jolley with HLE
They wanted it to have a community swimming pool. They wanted to have all these amenities that are usually reserved for the smaller lot subdivisions and more say higher end to get all those people to come.
00:30:12 Luke Jolley with HLE
But they wanted even a country one to have some of those aspects, and which is perfectly fine, but there's just additional hurdles if you do it in the county where there's no public water or public sewer. You have these other issues that you have to overcome. But yeah, I would say come with a vision of what you want to see or you want to achieve - your end goal and then we can go from there.
00:30:38 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
My follow-up question there would be, how does a lay person, somebody who's never been through the process, how do they convey that vision? What's helpful for you to receive to be able to understand that vision? I'm working with landscaping at my own house right now and struggling because I'm not very good apparently at conveying the vision. So what are good ways for somebody who's not an engineer, not an architect to approach the process and say here's my vision?
00:31:10 Luke Jolley with HLE
I would say pictures. I mean there's developments all over close by or whatever it is that you could say. I like this aspect of this or this aspect of this. And then you can bring it all together, hopefully.
00:31:26 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
I would just add, it's nice to know which aspect of the picture they like because sometimes you get this hodgepodge of, like, all these pictures, and it's like, well, you just showed me what? What did you like about that one? Because it's it doesn't. You know, when I look at these 10 pictures it's like there's no relation between any of these anymore.
00:31:46 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
And I think it's a good exercise as the client in this instance to gather those pictures and be able to identify this is what I like about this. This is what I'm trying to build.
00:31:58 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
And I think that it's on civil development just as easy as it does a single building or a space within that building or a space on the development itself where it's like, hey, I want this pocket park. Well, what are you thinking of that? Can I use it as a retention pond because I need some retention for all of this water runoff?
00:32:22 Luke Jolley with HLE
Or do you want kids to be playing in it?
00:32:24 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Yeah. Are they swimming in it or right? Yeah. What are we doing here?
00:32:28 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
In Idaho Falls, I've seen some lower areas. I'm from Houston, where retention ponds are quite deep, but I've seen a couple places in Idaho Falls that are depressed areas (that’s elevation wise) that also have playgrounds. Is that a use of a retention pond?
00:32:48 Luke Jolley with HLE
It was kind of something that some got thrown in. Especially not as much on this side of the state, but over in like Meridian in that areas. If you go to a lot of those subdivisions that were built 10-15 years ago, a lot of their retention ponds have their playgrounds in them. I think they were just like - they were trying to use every usable space. They were told they needed this amenity. Well, the only place to put this amenity is in this retention pond. But then they don't realize that, oh, we get a flash flood and then it's 2 feet of water and we have little kids playing on the merry go round.
00:33:28 Luke Jolley with HLE
And so most of those have stopped or gone away. Look at Hillcrest. The baseball diamond or softball diamond right there is in their retention for the whole side.
00:33:43 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
So every spring when they want to be playing, they're playing somewhere else. Well, it's a good use of dual purposing spaces, but you do have to make those sacrifices when the rain does come.
00:33:59 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
Awesome. Well, we appreciate your time. If anybody needs to reach out to HLE, we'll throw some links in our - into everything. We'll just throw the links in. https://www.hleinc.com/
00:34:18 Greg Croft with Resin Architecture
And that wraps up another enlightening episode of vision driven. We hope you enjoyed our conversation and gained valuable insights into the world of architecture development and construction. And don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback helps us grow and improve our content, and it also helps others discover the podcast.
00:34:33 Jamee Moulton with Resin Architecture
If you have any questions, suggestions for future topics, or if there's a specific guest you'd like us to feature, please reach out to us through our website, resinarchitecture.com, or connect with us on social media @ResinArchitecture, we value your Input and would love to hear from you.
